this is a cold war, do you know what you're fighting for?
trying to find my peace; I was made to believe there's something wrong with me
Okay. So. I just got into a racewank fight with Jim Butcher on Twitter. 
6th-Jul-2011 11:05 pm
[♪] we'll keep on dancing 'til she comes
That was one of the stupider things I have ever done in my life. Now I have a ton of people on Twitter rather... upset.

But I figure I'll share anyway, because ya'll may want to know this about Mr. Butcher.

Tonight's tale begins over here on Jim Butcher's Twitter account when some readers took extreme umbrage with what they saw as whitewashing of crime issues in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago.

There's your background. Let's begin.

JB: Why do some people not understand than I'm the real person, and that the fiction I write is... well, fiction? Fiction means make-believe. I'm not a goddamned socioeconomic historian.

Lucy: .... Wow, Jimmy B. Stand down, you don't have the high road on this topic.

JB: Gotta disagree, since I'm a bit more familiar with my fictional Chicago than anyone else.

Lucy: ... I... Oh wow. I'm pretty sure if you set your novels in a real location with a real living history, you should respect those familiar with the city when they take issue with what reads as apparent whitewashing of extremely serious issues.

JB: I did respect them, actually. Up until the "fuck you Jim Butcher" part. I take that back. Up until the part where they play the racist card. :)

Lucy: Sir, please don't bring up the tone argument. They have valid complaints. Don't delegitimize them for daring to be angry. What you did read as racist. It may not be fair to call *you* a racist, but they have the right to level that to the text. You are a white man. You do not get to tell a marginalized group what they can and can't be offended by.

JB: OH, okay. Now I get it. I'm white, so I need to have that kind of hate thrown my way and STFU.

Lucy: Mr. Butcher, do not take criticism of your text as criticism against you. You have editors, no? You should have thicker skin.

JB: I have no idea who this writer is, their gender, their color, their anything. But it's too much to expect an inkling of humanity? Or courtesy?

Lucy: Again, avoid the tone argument. It's not a valid counter and makes you look unaware of your privilege.

JB: "Fuck you Jim Butcher" is neither criticism, nor criticism of my text.

Lucy: No, but it sounds like the reaction of a person who has had their history and pain erased over and over and is tired of it. It was not aimed at you, you realize? These people don't know you and have likely never met you. They are angry at a society that repeatedly belittles and underrepresents their struggle and suffering.

JB: The "fuck you Jim Butcher!" was NOT aimed at me? Are you serious? :)

Lucy: Yes, I am. I am deadly serious and cut out the smilies. This is a serious issue and instead of engaging meaningfully you and getting caught up in a tone arguement and a perceived attack on you.

JB: I DO perceive "fuck you Jim Butcher" as intentional hostility. Yes.

Lucy: Random people on the internet you, as you say, don't know anything about. People who are simply *venting*. I said "fuck you, Joss Whedeon" every time he killed off a character I like. It was NOT an act of hostility.

JB: I feel that I can at least partly speak on JW's behalf by saying this: IT STILL HURTS.

CyprinellaJ, who is awesome: I hope you get over your kneejerk response to being insulted &actually read what the post is about. Protip: It's not only you.

Lucy: Yes, but you are an author. You should be receptive of criticism (especially legitimate crit) and stop taking it personally. It's not about you, it's not about you, it's *not about you*, it's about a systemic marginalization and whitewashing of real and serious issues. These people mean you no real harm, and I think(/hope) you are aware of that.

JB: Legitimate criticism, in my professional experience, rarely comes with personal invective and F-bombs.

Lucy: That criticism from professionals. This is not, but that does not invalidate it. Please, for the love of god, put aside you personal hurt and realized your (I imagine) inadvertent whitewashing is not an isolated incident.

Lucy: Mr. Butcher, I love your worldbuilding and your characters. I do. But your text has issues, just as *every* text does. Sexism and racism do appear to pop up, though I do not think *you* are yourself sexist or racist. But I sure as hell understand why someone who is faced with these issues *every day of their life* would get so angry.

(@HarriedWizard: Someone's gotta figure out that the Chicago where they live and the Chicago where I live ain't the same goddamned place.
Lucy: Jesus christ, Harry, don't. This is not about that.
Cyprinella: Sigh.
@HarriedWizard: Gonna be one of those nights.
Lucy: No, not really. At least, not from me. Now I'm just... tired. :sighs:
Cyprinella: Don't think I'm not frysquinting you right now. Just you've been a lot more reasonable.)

JB: It. Hurts. Anyway. Maybe I should have a thicker skin, but I have this weird condition where I give a fuck about others. Okay, okay. Woosah, deep breaths, moving on.

Lucy: But you have the white, male privilege of not being hyperaware of how society treats you. That's not a thing to be ashamed of but it is something you need to be aware of. I'm shaking and breathing hard myself, Mr. Butcher. But again. Please. Look at the actual issue, not your momentary hurt.

(After all that:
@HarriedWizard: So educate me now. What WAS that about?
Lucy: It was about Mr. Butcher sadly focusing more on his personal hurt than seeing a valid criticism of most modern American lit. :sighs: Thanks for the magic lesson though. [he gave a rundown of summoning magic to me earlier]
@HarriedWizard: You're welcome. And for what it's worth, Lucy, I admire your passion.
Lucy, now crying just a bit maybe: I... thank you. I don't know why but you saying so just got me tearing up. Dammit, you jerk. But thank you.)

And that's what happened. Thought ya'll should know.

:takes a long, deep breath:

ETA: Okay, I'm sorry everyone, but I'm turning off the email comments option on these posts. I respect you all have opinions, but I'm at the point I no long care because this entire incident is stressing me out. I regret having done it regardless of how decent my intention and cause was. I'm done arguing about this, I no longer care, and this is not worth the stress. Thank you everyone for your comments, supportive or otherwise, and feel free to continue discussing what happened. I will not be monitoring unless one of my friends pokes me to or something.

I'm just done.

Originally posted at DW. Comment here or there. DW comments:
7th-Jul-2011 04:08 am (UTC)
People just can't get the whole "it's not about you" idea. I think that is like, the main difference between a fuck-up and a fail.

You fuck up, get it pointed out or realize it, and you apologize and read more. You fuck up and some one calls you on it and you fight against that- you fail.

Some people are from the Time Before Internets and don't really get how fails and wanks are things, or that SOMEONE WILL CALL YOU OUT ON SOMETHING. Like, there should be a pamphlet before internet use. "Someday, someone will call you a motherfucker and tell you to stfu and learn yourself. If it's not in the comments second of youtube or a news site, they are probs right."

Or, after all this tldr, good job and hugs. I could never have been that composed esp. over twitter.
7th-Jul-2011 05:57 am (UTC)
I would have cried with joy if Butcher said at some point "I'm upset they phrased it that way, but I see where they're coming from. I can't fix what's already published, but I'll aim for more accuracy in my Chicago in the future."

7th-Jul-2011 04:40 am (UTC)
Wow, that is an intense exchange.

Another protip: don't use your public accounts to air your private grievances. It will almost always backlash on you.
7th-Jul-2011 05:58 am (UTC)
There wasn't much backlash, actually. Sadly. Most people were white knighting and missing the point all over the place. Boo hiss. 8(
7th-Jul-2011 05:45 am (UTC)
Oh lord, I don't know how you found the patience.
7th-Jul-2011 05:58 am (UTC)
IDK either. It's an utter mystery.
7th-Jul-2011 06:57 am (UTC)
Oh my word, I am super impressed you remained so calm and reasonable. I think I would have dissolved into AHHHHHHHLISTENTOWHATI'M*SAYING*.
7th-Jul-2011 03:11 pm (UTC)
Props for managing to get him to listen enough to realize you at least were making a rational argument, even if not one he agreed with. Engaging (white) people on race is like trying to ask someone for a favour while an air-raid siren goes off in their ear.

(Betty is a person of pallor, in case the username misleads.)
7th-Jul-2011 09:58 pm (UTC)
*shakes head*

Why bother writing about Chicago if you're going to whitewash it? Why not write about, I don't know, Helena, Montana?

7th-Jul-2011 10:51 pm (UTC)
Good job keeping your cool and deescalating the situation. Twitter and the internet is so immediate that situations can rapidly devolve into nasty chaos.

As far as the tone argument, it wasn't until I had people screaming at me on a frequent basis that I got it. I work in a position of extreme privilege, and if I shut down any critique that wasn't packaged politely, I'd never get any honest discussion.

JB hasn't quite figured it out yet, it seems, but you deserve kudos in trying to explain.
7th-Jul-2011 11:50 pm (UTC)
I think, from his side, he wasn't getting any validation for his own feelings before being told he had to validate everyone ELSE's feelings.

We all like to feel that we are right, even if we're wrong.

Also, if he's not familiar with jargon like 'tone argument', 'white privilege', 'whitewashing', he may have percieved it as "you're wrong because you're white".

I'm white, I'm not familiar with those terms (nor am I American), and that's kind of how I perceived some of it.

Not saying you should have stroked his ego, but... I dunno. Truth is, I don't think he was ready to listen to words of wisdom. He may yet learn from it.
8th-Jul-2011 12:07 am (UTC)
Anyone would get mad if they were told to fuck off, regardless of if it was directed at them specifically or as a general statement. I get why he got mad. Even if it wasn't meant specifically for him, it appears that way.

Something people all over need to realize: if you're going to criticize somebody/something like this, use calm tones. Yes, you're angry. I get it. I don't know if you're right or not. I don't live in Chicago. But, if you're trying to reach people, or at least have your thoughts listened to, starting with FUCK YOU is basically going to close minds, no matter how just your point is.

The thing is, it's hard to listen to someone telling you you're wrong when they're using insulting language like that, again, even if it's not totally directed towards you.

Yes, it's a tone argument, but frankly people forget tone. I've had my mind changed on MANY things, and changed many minds because of calm words. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

As for the white washing thing: I don't know. I don't read his books. Given the nature of how he's not a Chicago native, I wouldn't be surprised if it was accidental mild racism here.
8th-Jul-2011 12:16 am (UTC)
The post in question was on tumblr. It was not directed at him, emailed to him, or otherwise conveyed to him or placed somewhere he was likely to see.

The tone argument is a terrible one because it essentially says your views are worthless and should be ignored because of how you phrased them. It tells people who have been hurt that their valid complaints don't hold more water than the momentary hurt of someone who has wronged them. "Sure, I did something offensive, but when you called me out for it, you were really mean about it," essentially.
8th-Jul-2011 12:43 am (UTC)
Actually, it was directed at him. It said "F--- You Jim Butcher". I think if someone wrote that in a blog with my name on it, it'd be directed to me. And yes, I would take offense if I were directed to it, and want to know why it was said, which is what he asked about.

It's a terrible thing to say to anyone. I'd ask the tumblr poster, would she say the same thing to a relative, or a neighbor down the street? If she says no, then why the heck would she post such a thing in such a public place? She knew it would get out, if not to Jim on twitter, then to fans of his writing on tumblr. Was she truly seeking to further a cause, or was she looking for attention, however she could obtain it? (negatively, it seems)

All I can say is, I'm very disappointed in some of my fellow human beings right now. Not just for the F-Bomb, but for dropping the "more minorities have to be in this book and that book" complaint. If one is not happy with what's out there, they need to write their own book, and be prepared to receive their own slew of complaints for missing this, that and the other.
8th-Jul-2011 02:34 am (UTC)
I did see this on twitter, couldn't find a link for the original discussion that caused all this hubbub. As glad as I am to hear that someone has brought up these issues (I've often thought that the Chicago Butcher shows sounds nothing like the RL one my mom lives in) it's disappointing to see you defending what you said with "tone argument tone argument tone argument.

All I've seen of "tone arguments" is people insulting me and saying things that trigger me, and then telling me I have no right to complain because that is a "tone argument". Anger may be a natural emotion, but it's not right to use it or the tone argument concept to excuse insulting people, harassing them, or triggering them.

Most insults I see waived away with the "oh but if you complain you're using a tone argument" excuse are kyriarchal anyway. "Fuck you" is potentially problematic in many ways as well.
(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 05:49 am (UTC)
There is a big difference between "that person didn't phrase it the way I want them to" and "that person is hurling insults at me or wishing me violence". "Fuck you" isn't about rainbows and sunshine, it's a swear term that is problematic in itself. It doesn't irk me to see someone reacting genuinely angrily over something; it bothers me when they try to totally divorce themselves from any effects their statements have on people or refuse to confront their problematic word choice because asking them to do so would be a "tone argument". There is a big difference between a person refusing to listen because someone isn't pandering to their bigotry, and a person not wanting to engage with someone who is making them feel unsafe or insulted. I mean, I've seen people telling someone to go kill themselves, and excusing it because, 'they're bigoted/ist". I know "fuck you" doesn't seem like a big deal to a lot of people, but we make a lot of assumptions about famous people and people online without really knowing anything about their background. We assume Butcher is neurotypical, heterosexual, and has not been through abuse or rape. [or maybe some bigger fans than I have intereviews proving otherwise, IDK] I guess what I'm trying to say? Telling someone "go kill yourself" probably won't have the effect on a happy, non-depressed person as it does on someone who is dealing with suicidal impulses. "Fuck you" probably is nothing more than cutesy saying to some people on the net, but to other people... )8

I don't know. I just know that leaving, getting away, refusing to engage, when someone has lost control of their anger or is yelling insults is pretty much the only method I have of dealing with people that make me feel unsafe.

I think that's a common method of keeping oneself from exhaustion and being emotionally shredded. It's what the OP has done after all-disabled notifs and blocked hostile-seeming people on twitter.

Ah, I feel like I'm unwittingly defending Butcher here :( His books are problematic and he should listen to what people are saying. Doesn't mean telling him "fuck off" or "fuck you" is okay and he shouldn't be angry.
(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 06:13 am (UTC)
Okay, so telling a minority that they can't use 'fuck you' is a tone argument. How about telling a minority they can't call someone a whore or a bitch or a faggot when they're calling them out? I guess that's a tone argument too. It's okay to use problematic words and sayings so long as we're calling out a privileged person right?

Well I'm a POC and being told "fuck you" bothers me. It's sex-negative and policing someone's sexuality. (I don't have to fuck ANYONE, and I don't have to let anyone fuck me). I don't have to be okay with that saying. I'm glad that something that makes me feel physically ill is "cathartic" for some people. I'm sure it's cathartic for some people to call women sluts and dykes too, and to go on racist rants about immigrants.
(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 04:35 pm (UTC) - Re: TW Rape
Sorry, it was late and night and I was tired and emotional, so I probably did fly off the handle and not make much sense.

I don't think many people have an issue with terms like "fuck off" "fuck you", even in activist circles. I guess it's actually irrelevant to J.B's jerkishness so I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

I'm definitely not going to be buying Ghost Story after this. :/

He showed his ass and as a POC, I find his defensive, privileged response a bigger issue than someone telling him to go fuck himself out of (righteous) anger.

Agreed. I apologize for the derail.

(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 04:43 pm (UTC)
Or straw woman.
(Deleted comment)
18th-Jul-2011 05:11 pm (UTC)
I don't mind. The existence of tone arguments is not a blanket excuse for people to act as horribly as they like and waive away the effects of their actions.

I think it's telling to see Miss "any criticism is a tone argument!!11" winterfox telling someone to go climb a wall of live plugs (aka kill or damage yourself).

It just confirms how many people are using it [accusation of tone argument] to excuse saying disgusting things.
5th-Aug-2011 06:33 pm (UTC)
First of all, let me say one thing. I am well aware that white privelage exists, and that society is unfairly biased towards white people and straights. However, it is still possible to make an accusation of racism that is groundless and unfounded. It is also ad homenim to say that a non white can never understand what it is like to experience marginalization. It is human nature to avoid confrontational arguements, and simply saying "your racist and you suck" is a poor way of arguing.
8th-Jul-2011 12:36 am (UTC)
I agree with the previous poster on this (objectorbit?). If the original tumblr poster had utilized more a thoughtful, mature way to post how she felt about the book series, I think her criticism would have been taken as more of a "hey, yeah, I may need to think about this". Although having read the series, I can say there are minorities in there (black, hispanic, asian, native american), as well as non-human supernatural types. What we as readers have to remember here is often times writers write about what they know or have amassed as an interest for the purpose of storytelling. They might branch out a little to be innovative, but most of what's on paper will come from their experiences.

I'd give the guy a break. And let the twitter posts die. The OP on tumblr really should have simmered down before posting. She would have garnered a lot more nods in agreement (or partial agreement) than shakes of the head in disapproval.

And I ask of you, don't get into it with me about whitewashing or some other nonsense. I come from varying ethnic backgrounds and my mix is NEVER covered in books. Am I supposed to feel disenfranchised now? I'd rather spend my time thinking about things more worthwhile. (That isn't directed right towards the OP of this livejournal...just a general thought.)
8th-Jul-2011 12:58 am (UTC)
(English isn't my first language so let's start this of by me saying "sorry" for all the mistakes I'm going to make.)

I love your writing. The way you use language, the way you build your own world in the setting of the Dresden Files. I found my way into this universe, this world through fanfiction. I was aware of the fuck ups and difficulties of the Dresden Files through that long before I bought the first book.

Maybe it makes me look at canon differently than others, maybe it makes me approach it differently. I don't know.

You did the right thing reacting to JB like you did. Actually, I think you handled the whole thing admirably. You still do. I don't know you, you don't know me, and yet I'm feeling proud of you.

I'm not getting involved in this -- having another language as your primary one often makes it difficult to get your point across the way you intended it if the argument is held in your second language -- but I still agree with you on this and I want you to know you're not alone.

You are not alone. What you said to JB was true. And you can link to whatever the fuck you like to on your fic community. It's on me if I follow the link and read the entry.

Stay true to yourself, you're awesome.
9th-Jul-2011 05:01 am (UTC) - My Two Cents and I Know I'm Going to be Ignored So...
'You did the right thing reacting to JB like you did.'

She 'did the right thing' by acting like she's better than him and going at the writer like she is the one with better knowledge of the subject and she can talk down at him as if on some bigger, higher ground?


While the basis argument made by the person on Tumblr and this chick is true; they both lost credibility by cursing at the guy -- right off the bat, no less -- like a petulant child who just learned to curse and acting like she's the bigger person in this though she picked a debate with him by responding on his Tweet and acting all 'Woe is Me!' respectively when he gets down on her.

Jim isn't any better in this, let's get that clear because I'm not his biggest fan as of late, but with you guys trying to make her over here look like a flawless saint in this situation is just down right annoying to other people who see this from outside this unneeded drama.
(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 03:51 pm (UTC) - Re: My Two Cents and I Know I'm Going to be Ignored So...
And you guys wonder why others find it difficult to understand your side of the situation or just don't 'seem to get it'?
(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 04:01 pm (UTC) - Re: My Two Cents and I Know I'm Going to be Ignored So...
Whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy.
10th-Jul-2011 04:03 pm (UTC) - Re: My Two Cents and I Know I'm Going to be Ignored So...
Also, I'm quite serious about this question: But what do you mean by 'Climb a wall of live plugs'? I know you're basically telling me to shut up about my opinion here but I never heard of that expression before on the internet. I usually get the 'STFU' or 'U Mad' gifs.
8th-Jul-2011 03:31 am (UTC) - seriously?
Do you think only white people can be racist?

And why should somebody have a problem with a hood he lived in being called a place you don't want to be in a night and then go on to admit that is was a bad hood to be in anytime?

How would you like being a Media Whore? I sure wouldn't. You think a hetro male likes hearing a hostile male of unknown sexual preference say he wants to have sex with him?

9th-Jul-2011 09:01 pm (UTC) - Re: seriously?
You are clearly a troll but I'm going to waste time on you and reply to you.

Yes only white people can be racist because they have had and continue to have power in the US.

His comments about the neighborhood were according to the tumblr poster unfounded and wrong and no one would like for anyone to describe a place they love and live in by the way he described the neighborhood.

24th-Jul-2011 03:25 am (UTC) - Re: seriously?
...did you really just say only white people can be racist? I was under the impression that the word "racism" means "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races," which would mean that it is not restricted to whites or to races in power.
8th-Jul-2011 02:35 pm (UTC)
I disagree with the way you approached this :/ Not because I worship Mr. Butcher and can't stand to see him spoken against or anything, but because your arguments, while having some validity, come across as highly condescending. I believe this could have happened in a better way, which you seem to have decided as well. It's difficult to win people to your side when you speak down at them from some lofty moral high ground.

As for the original issue, I've no actual experience with the neighborhood and don't feel comfortable telling people who lived there that they're wrong or whatever, but I trust that Mr. Butcher tried his best.
9th-Jul-2011 08:53 pm (UTC)
Her comments did not come across as condescending at all. She replied to him in a calm manner(something he did not deserve)and also why should she have to take the better route?

"It's difficult to win people to your side when you speak down at them from some lofty moral high ground."
I think it's safe to say where you stand on the issue. So by trying to inform him about his white privilege and explain why the poster on tumblr was angry at him, she was speaking from "some lofty moral high ground?"

It's because of people like you, who excuse people like Mr.Butcher, that many issues on race are not discussed or brought to light. And you don't have to live in any kind of neighborhood to know that Chicago has a large minority population.

Last but not least please educate yourself on race, white-washing, and white privilege before you make a comment on something you clearly know nothing about.
10th-Jul-2011 02:21 pm (UTC)
Excuse me, people like me? I don't believe you know enough about me to make such a decisive statement, ma'am, and I apologize if you disagree with my opinions, but they remain as I have stated above.
(Deleted comment)
10th-Jul-2011 03:27 pm (UTC)
Oooookay, clearly I just jumped into a snake pit here. I'll leave you all to your little hatefest, yeah?
12th-Jul-2011 07:06 am (UTC)
I think it's incredibly brave of you to stand up to him like that. I've been in such situations where people I admire and respect say really, really problematic things and I've just kept quiet. So good on you.
24th-Jul-2011 03:30 am (UTC)
I didn't agree with your conclusion on this subject, but I thought your calm tone was appropriate and admirable. My only problem with what you said is that you were treating the criticism of Jim Butcher as legitimate literary criticism leveled at issues raised by his work, which it was not. It was an immature personal insult against Butcher himself.

Inaccuracies in social portrayal are definitely worth discussing, but that's not what was happening. Butcher published something that was accidentally offensive, and instead of providing calm and mature criticism (like you did over the course of the above conversation) the offendee resorted to mudslinging. That's just not the approach that mature adults discussing an important matter take.

To be fair, as you pointed out, it's not like this person posted a comment on Jim Butcher's Facebook wall. It was not the Internet equivalent of seeking him out and yelling insults at him, but rather the equivalent of having a loud, rude conversation and having the subject of that conversation walk by and overhear. So I can understand both sides of the argument, I just happen to think that treating such comments as valid literary criticism is giving them a value they do not deserve.

So honestly I think Jim Butcher was generally in the right on this matter, but you disagreed and did so--for the most part--perfectly well.
7th-Aug-2011 06:01 am (UTC) - strange
(english is not my 1° language, please excuse the errors)

I find this discussion very strange.

Same People acuse JB of being racist because...
he describe a neighborhood he has never been, in a city he has never been, as a bad place. "a bizarre blend of the worst a large city had to offer" .. "It wasn’t the kind of place I wanted to walk around after dark"
People say that because blacks and latinos live there, and because JB described it has a bad place, them JB is racist.

Same People, in the same post (
also say:
"i lived in hyde park for six years"
"when i finally moved out, it was because in the past few months, my car had been broken into twice"
"at least two women had been badly injured in muggings right outside my apartment complex gate", "almost a week to wash the blood off the concrete"
"i’d had a peeping tom "
"and an attempted break-in at my bedroom window"
for me, thats a description of ... a bad place.

If Same People's description of that neighborhood is correct..
then JB's description is also correct
JB is not racist... he is ACURATE.

Then, why Same People took this particular sentence of the 2° book of the series (now at 13 books), to make a issue??

Why not pick the characters?? Racist writers use the stereotypes "Black = bad" x "white = good".
Lets see the etnic profile of JB's characters

John Stallings - good guy, cop, Lieutenant and Head of Special Investigations.
Sanya - very good guy, Knight of the Cross, the only Knight in the world for several books.
Martha Liberty - Senior Council, good guy.
No.. No black vilans.. not even a lazy or crooked one.

Buthers - doctor, harry's sidekick, the smarter guy in the book.

Susan Rodriguez - gorgeous, dark skinned, harry's lover, mother of ..
harry's daughter Maggie (OMG - the protagonist have a etnic mixed kid)
Carlos Ramirez - Warden (magic police), Regional Commander of western parts of North America, the hero of the white council.
No.. No evil latinos.. but, there was a Don Paolo Ortega, very bad guy, a duke of the red vampires, very cool guy.
latinos: 3 goods x 1 bad.

Native American
Joseph Listens-to-Wind - senior council, good guy.

Ancient Mai - Senior Council, not evil, but scary old lady - harry is afraid of her.
Shiro - Knight of the Cross, very good guy, gave his life to save the protagonist.

Look like Mr JB has very diversified characters.
Look like there is no etnic stereotypes.
Look like Mr Jb take care to not use non-whites has human vilans (no blacks in the black council, so far).

Then, why Same People pick one particular AND ACURATE sentence of a old book to make a etnic issue??

I have a protest to make.
Mr JB is using too litle POC has bad guys.
All the black are good, more than good, virtuous.
All the bad humans are white.
I am feeling bad myself.
I demand:
balance the scales.
Put some black in the black council..
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